Boom Headshot! Kwari Dead Options

[Administrator]

(IMG:http://virtualmindhive.com/forum/uploads/1213758033/gallery_1_45_1834.jpg)

Earlier this month it was confirmed that Kwari, the Real Cash Economy First Person Shooter, had gone into receivership and was closing its doors. Kwari lived a very

short public release life limited only to European players and was said to be set for a limited release stateside in June. Instead, the project was cut short and the doors locked tight. Kwari participants had many issues during its short lifespan including difficulty finding other players for matchups as well as latency issues. Although one player did win a hefty sum of $20,000 in jackpot form, it is unknown whether any of the gamers have received the funds they had invested in the game. How these transactions and the demise of this game are handled could send a clear message to participants for RCE worlds like Second Life and Entropia Universe. Do you have any rights to your Virtual Currency? What happens when they close their doors? If they don’t have the money, who gets paid first? The creditors or the customers? Can they just close up shop and essentially take the money and run? All questions we would love to be able to answer…

[Com]

Do you have any rights to your Virtual Currency? What happens when they close their doors? If they don’t have the money, who gets paid first? The creditors or the customers? Can they just close up shop and essentially take the money and run?

All questions we would love to be able to answer…

My best guess?

1. No.
2. The "virtual currency" disappears into the ether as soon as the server is powered down.
3. Nobody gets paid first, because nobody gets paid. See (2.) above.
4. The creditors may be paid eventually, but the "players" should not assume they will be creditors. Creditors will be those owed hard debts in real life currency due to purchases and obligations made in the real world.
5. Yes.

All these (boring negative etc.) opinions are why I've always been leery of the idea of "investing in a virtual economy." When I send MA $20, it's money spent to pay a game, not an investment. And looking at my loots, that's the only way to view it. I don't send them any $ I can't afford to lose. A thorough reading of the EULA would probably support these viewpoints. :)

This post has been edited by Com: Jun 24 2008, 09:13 PM

[Darkscorp]

Bummers..I guess those that played Kwari are kinda pissed atm.

BTW..I agree with all of Coms points..:)

Sustainability is a key factor to any RCE and I guess the Devs were going for the "Cheap shot"..ie take the money and run.

I remember all the rumors about MA doing the same thing a long time ago. Gladly, for everyone involved,that didn't happen..which says a lot about MAs integrity.

But I also heard that Marco now owns a Bugatti Veyron..I dunno if thats true or not, just saying is all.

LOL!!!!!!
:D

[Marco|MindArk]

But I also heard that Marco now owns a Bugatti Veyron..I dunno if thats true or not, just saying is all.

No Bugatti for me. ,-)

[Domochevsky]

So... Porsche? Scooter? Shiny Bicycle? :D

[Wistrel]

Thats interesting! Well I guess we were bound to see a few flops. MMOG's appear to be becomming the next dotcom at the moment and are popping up everywhere. Everyone wants a slice of the action. Its almost like a scaled up version of forums. Everyone wants to own THE forum likewise everyone wants to run a large MMOG.

Some people are gonna fail. Another one I found out has gone west is NightScape which was going to be about running a nightclub and clubbing in general. Kinda like the ability to make your own customisable CND.

[Noggin]

For me at least, this type of news brings mixed emotions;

I have always droned on about how people have basically no rights over any money they give to these virtual worlds. MA for one certainly guarantee pretty much nothing. All theesy have is their so-far stable growth and reputation. That's one giant leap of faith for the people who sink their life savings into the game... Do they really know how risky that is?

However, when you hear of this happening, it makes it all just that little bit more real. You suddenly realise that there's nobody out there to protect the consumer when they 'invest' their money in this sort of thing, and as Com quite rightly says, it turns out to be a payment rather than an investment :)

Who knows what happened at Kwari HQ. I have heard so little about it that I have to assume not many people invested any significant sum into the game, but I could well be wrong. We could have had a situation where a niche of players put a lot of money in, and the company cut and run. The developers could well be vrooming around in their Bugattis guffawing at the poor saps who were dumb enough to hand over their hard-earned. But I suspect the truth is more that the project was poorly managed, and they plain ran out of money.

I think this is where you really have to admire what MA have achieved. As much as some of us criticise them (*points at himself*), they have really pulled it off. It's one thing to get a product to market, and another thing entirely to get it to make a good profit and provide a decent service. On top of that, when you consider how groundbreaking the whole concept is, it's a pretty tall order.

I know that Linden Labs are having much more difficulty profiting out of their system, so in some ways one might consider that to be the more risky option.

All I know is, as long as people can remain unaccountable for their actions over the Internet, consumer protection will always be a pipe-dream. Virtual goods don't 'exist', therefore how can one own them? I'm sure this subject will be discussed for many years before anything comes of it.

[Dino]

I think this is where you really have to admire what MA have achieved. As much as some of us criticise them (*points at himself*), they have really pulled it off. It's one thing to get a product to market, and another thing entirely to get it to make a good profit and provide a decent service. On top of that, when you consider how groundbreaking the whole concept is, it's a pretty tall order.

Yeah, I come across as biter now I guess but when you consider the industry average for lifespan in this industry, MA has done a remarkable thing.

When you consider that my biggest beef with MA is they keep saying "it's not a game" and seem to be neglecting the game side of PE, the advances in the "other" side seem bazaar. I mean what was the purpose of the Banks? I remember no burning desire for them from the participants and they certainly have added virtually nothing to the game as far as I can tell. :shrug:

[Darkscorp]

So... Porsche? Scooter? Shiny Bicycle? :D

I think Marco got as far as touching the Key Fob for a Vespa...:)

[Dino]

When you consider that my biggest beef with MA is they keep saying "it's not a game" and seem to be neglecting the game side of PE, the advances in the "other" side seem bazaar. I mean what was the purpose of the Banks? I remember no burning desire for them from the participants and they certainly have added virtually nothing to the game as far as I can tell. :shrug:

After typing this I staring thinking. Not sure if that's number one beef or it the HunterZbot thing is my biggest beef. Has anyone heard anything about any resolution of that?

[RexDameon]

Really said i was going to pay my friend to play cause he would have cleaned up i think.

Man i never even got to try it.

YOu know though MA could realy capitalize on this and just add this feature the the event system. It realy almost kind is with the ammo option.

[Noggin]

After typing this I staring thinking. Not sure if that's number one beef or it the HunterZbot thing is my biggest beef. Has anyone heard anything about any resolution of that?

Nope, never heard anything else about the bot stuff... Personally I didn't care too much about it - if somebody wants to risk their entire account by getting a macro to play for them, is no worries to me. If I were in the position with skills and equipment that I could make a constant profit by playing, it'd certainly be a temptation! To my mind, whether he's the one behind the controls or not is immaterial. Some people actually do play for 20 hours a day!

I don't think it was a significant drain on the so-called loot pool either. It's just the way the whole thing is balanced.

But that's just my jaded opinion... Don't get me wrong, whilst I think MA deserve their success in some ways, they really don't in others. I think they should be recognised for what they have achieved, but I don't think they should rest on their laurels (which they plainly have been).

I totally agree with you about the 'Game\Universe' thing - To deny the fact EU is a game is totally stupid. It's one of the gamiest games in all of gamedonia. They don't even pull off the other stuff too well IMHO. It's nice to be able to offer it, but it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all.

If they concentrated on the game, they'd be onto a winner. I'd even go as far as to say that EU would be almost as big as WoW if they had developed it at a similar rate.

The MMO company I'm involved with at the moment has made me how much MA drag their feet with everything. The games I've been seeing don't have a bunch of half-finished, half-arsed features like EU - they develop at a scary rate, and I doubt the dev teams are any bigger than MA's.

I mean, not wanting to blow my own trumpet or anything, but I swear we develop things faster than MA, and my whole team have day jobs! I run 2 other businesses, AND have a bit of time for some SL in between!

MA have created quite a monster, and from what I can tell it's pretty difficult to make changes, simply because every time they do, they have to evaluate its effect on every single entity in the 'universe'. If it was a looser model to begin with, I'm sure they'd be having an easier time with it now.

Certainly I doubt the Cry Engine would make any difference on that front.

But, back on topic, how the development is organised, and how the game is designed to change throughout the years is paramount to a games success. People expect something 'different' to do all the time - once you've hunted so much stuff, you start to ache for something else to do. EU only offers so much at the moment, and I think that's quite limiting at the moment.

Who knows what happened with Kwari, but I should think it was something to do with the spiralling development costs outweighing it's profit potential at the time. It's a very tough balance for sure.

[Dino]

But, back on topic, how the development is organised, and how the game is designed to change throughout the years is paramount to a games success. People expect something 'different' to do all the time - once you've hunted so much stuff, you start to ache for something else to do. EU only offers so much at the moment, and I think that's quite limiting at the moment.

Agreed. Craft, Mine, Hunt. That's about it. I hunted till I was pretty good. (Uber by normal standards, n00b by Leafren standards. :D) Then I mined until I was really good. Not quite Uber but pretty high level. Then the system changed. I tried crafting some but I felt like one of those old zombies at the slots in vegas. Then I just wandered off to other things, mainly SL.

[Aziphirael]

I had put in about £20 I think to just give it a bash and think I had spent most of it before it had gone under. So on the whole not to fussed about it. Certainly it was struggling, very hard to get games and I think it just couldn't generate the player base to really sustain it.

[Wistrel]

I mean, not wanting to blow my own trumpet or anything, but I swear we develop things faster than MA, and my whole team have day jobs! I run 2 other businesses, AND have a bit of time for some SL in between!

sooo.... about that jan/feb early user test Marco ;)

(hehe sorry only kidding - couldn't resist (IMG:http://virtualmindhive.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/on_the_quiet2.gif) )

[catherinecarter8...]

Creditors will be those owed hard debts in real life currency due to purchases and obligations made in the real world. (IMG:http://www.virtualmindhive.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/on_the_quiet2.gif)


pret auto